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: How does one determine if the color in a copy of a photograph is correct : without comparing the original and the copy? For example, if I include an : 18% gray card as part of my copy, and reproduce the card as good as : possible, am : I assured that I have the best copy possible (e.g., color, contrast, etc.)? A perfect match of the grey card in the print guarantees that only that point in the colour space is matched.  The contrast could still be way off (no shadow or no hilight details or both; or no true black or no true white or both).  The colour could also be off (ie cross over such as red shadows and cyan highlights that meet perfectly in the middle to give you the 18% grey). Sandor

Hi all, I apologize if the answer to this question is in a FAQ (if so, which one?) How does one determine if the color in a copy of a photograph is correct without comparing the original and the copy? For example, if I include an 18% gray card as part of my copy, and reproduce the card as good as possible, am I assured that I have the best copy possible (e.g., color, contrast, etc.)? Thanks in advance for your help. John Trimble, Ph.D. Packer Engineering, Inc. This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

John, First of all, after 20 years of professional color correcting, I finally came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as correct color. I have 50 professional photographers I do work for, and none of them see color the same way. The difference between novice and experienced color correctors  is the ability to see color the way someone else does and make them happy even though you think it looks horrible. I believe many people are misled by the concept of a grey card. In cases where the lab can't see the original they have some value, but to see how confusing color correcting can be, try the following: Photograph an 18% grey card against a neutral backround. Then without changing anything related to exposure, replace the neutral backround with brighter primary colors like red or blue, making seperate exposures of each color. If you make a print balanced to the neutral backround, then make prints of the other backrounds without any color correcting, you will see why grey cards can be misleading. The problem is that when your eyes are exposed to bright colors for even short periods of time, the brain attempts to convert them to neutral. Try holding a brightly colored card in front of your face for 10 seconds and then look at a grey card and you will see it tinted by the opposite color of the card you were looking at. I see this every day when I video analyze portrait sittings where the photographer uses a blue, then tan, colored backround. I get a good skin tone with the blue backround, then when he changes to the tan backround, the skin tones look totally different although nothing else has changed. All this has been a long winded prelude to the following: Grey cards can be deceiving, so don't rely on them too much when doing copy work. Use them, but make the final correction _base_d on what you think makes the *print* looks best, not the grey card. -   JON CROFT   This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

In my limited opionion correct color is an artistic interpretation. When printing color balance to the most important area's of the print. Make sure you judge color balance with a dry print and in daylight as different artifical light sources will give you a color cast. If there was such a thing as perfect color than no one would buy these saturated films that seem to be flooding the market. I concurr that using a gray card is not a perfect solution. I would get a book from the library and review youngs theory. Once you get use to working with the color triangle you can make slight corrections, see where the color is going and realize if you went to far.

Hi all, I apologize if the answer to this question is in a FAQ (if so, which one?) How does one determine if the color in a copy of a photograph is correct without comparing the original and the copy? For example, if I include an 18% gray card as part of my copy, and reproduce the card as good as possible, am I assured that I have the best copy possible (e.g., color, contrast, etc.)? Thanks in advance for your help. John Trimble, Ph.D. Packer Engineering, Inc. This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Several told you what's wrong with just a gray-card, but no one gave you anything to improve your odds.  Get either a Kodak Color Separation Guide and Gray Scale (My old one is Kodak Cat# 152-7662, Publication # Q-14 dated 10/78 and priced at $10.00)  Its probably two or three times that much now! <g    It gives you RGBCMYK + Brown and a 20 step gray scale that you can include in some of the images for calibration.  Another choice would be a Macbeth ColorChecker Chart. It gives a 6 step gray scale + 18 other color patches representing various standard/natural colors. _base_d on the organization listed on your posting, check with Helix Camera in/around Chicago.  I buy from the one in Lombard.  If they don't have it, they can get it. (I just spend money there; I don't get any back from them! <g) Rich This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it ================  A new civilization is emerging in our lives, and  blind men everywhere are trying to suppress it.                              A. Toffler ================

: Hi all, : I apologize if the answer to this question is in a FAQ (if so, which one?) : How does one determine if the color in a copy of a photograph is correct : without comparing the original and the copy? For example, if I include an : 18% gray card as part of my copy, and reproduce the card as good as : possible, am : I assured that I have the best copy possible (e.g., color, contrast, etc.)? : Thanks in advance for your help. : John Trimble, Ph.D. : Packer Engineering, Inc. : This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Hi John, Your problem is pretty familar to me. But I have to tell you that the 18% grey card will not do you any good by itself and the reproduction. Basically you have to see, the reasons behind the 18% grey card, had notwhen taking a 18% gray card. So you see, it realy depends on your neagitves, on how they are composed in the first place. Lets say a full red rose togehter with a 18% grey card will not adequately be correct _base_d on grey alone. It would be probably pretty close in an open landscape scenery where you really have that average mix of colors and so your correct ligth reading with the 18%card. Better use a Macbeth Colorchecker and you will see what parer which color reproduces. Best regards. hing to do with color specificly, it was just the average mix of a 'good' black and white image. Well of course you measure your light with it